Another erosion of our civil liberties

[lostcarpark]

This week it was announced that from 2009 it will no longer be possible to travel between Ireland and the UK without a passport, and that we will have an electronic border with a requirement to submit personal information prior ro travel.

While it may be claimed that this is to prevent terrorism, we all know that it's really about controling the movement of illegal imigrants.

Personally I'm not terribly happy about this. In the past I have travelled to the UK with no identification whatsoever. Probably not advisable, but in the past one had the right to.

However, if I lived in Northern Ireland I would be absolutely livid. This effectively makes residents of the provence second clss citizens of the UK, as they will no longer be able to travel within their own country without carrying a passport and submitting personal details about themselves.

I feel that we are heading the wrong direction with this. We should be looking at a wider European common travel arrangement. As far as I know, France, Germany and the Benelux countries still have a common travel policy. We should be looking at merging it with the UK and Ireland one, and gradually bringing in other EU countries. We should be looking at making it easier to travel within the EU, not at erecting new barriers. If necessary, strengthen the external controls, but once within the EU movement should have as few restrictions as possible.

How do you think the Texans would react if you told them they'd need a passpord to go to New Mexico?

Not very well, I think, and why should we be any different?

Comments

[purple-peril.livejournal.com]

Ack, why I can't I copy and paste from your post???

Anyway...
I'm confused. You say you'l need a passport to travel between Ireland and the UK, and this will mean that people from Northern Ireland won't be able to travel within their own country without one. But Northern Ireland is part of the UK, so presumably they won't need one...???

[lostcarpark.livejournal.com]

Sorry, my custom LJ theme does some funny things in IE. It works in Firefox, for some reason.

I need to find out more about this, but it sounds like this applies to all internal UK flights, not just between NI and the rest of UK.

[xnamkrad.livejournal.com]

AFAIK what you suggest is indeed the norm on mainland Europe ie you dont need a passport going from France to Germany. The reason that is not the case between the UK and Ireland is because of the fact that the UK refused to allow this and as we are closely tied to the UK in travel, neither do we. However as the UK are changing their rules, it means that we can in fact travel to the rest of the EU without the passport. On the other hand I have never travelled to the UK with my passport anyway. And of course the UK is screwing it up - either you need a passport to travel to the all of the UK or none of it. Their new proposal makes as much sense as saying you need a passport for England but not Scotland.

[daveon.livejournal.com]

Will they enforce this on the land border, or are they just making it a requirement for flying? I have a feeling they're moving the same way on domestic internal UK flights too. So this would bring flying and ferries to Ireland into the same system.

It's still pointless.

[lostcarpark.livejournal.com]

As far as I understand, there will be no restrictions on the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland (which I think is the UK's only land border), but a passport will be required on flights and ferries between either part of Ireland and "mainland" UK.

If this will also apply to internal UK flights, then my second class citizen remark is mistaken, though it makes any UK citizen who can't or won't get a passport a second class citizen as it restricts their ability to travel within their own country.

[orbzine.livejournal.com]

I was shocked to read your post - I suspected it was an April Fool's prank, 5 months early.

Then I found this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7059580.stm

However, it DOES say that they don't plan on enforcing it on the land border.

The fact is, internal flights in the UK already require a passport. So this isn't too much of a change. Although I'm in favour of freedom of movement (a European Right) ...

Hey, are you doing NaNoWriMo this year?

[drpete.livejournal.com]

Not quite - internal flights in the UK require "approved photo ID", which to many people is indeed a passport. A photocard driving license is also currently acceptable. For how long remains to be seen.

[lostcarpark.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is the case between Ireland and the UK at the moment too. My passport had a nasty washing machine accident last year, and I've been over to the UK several times just using my driving license since.

[lostcarpark.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've just started NaNoWriMo. Here's hoping I don't ruun out of ideas too soon!

You can see how I'm doing here.

Confusing

[rwgray.livejournal.com]

If this is not enforced at the Uk-Ireland land border, then not enforced at any Uk-Uk border, what can it actually achieve against the unwelcome?

BUT I have to say that after decades of whinging about an immigration problem, we do finally have a huge one.

I'm going to whinge about it at my own journal shortly.

[etherealfionna.livejournal.com]

It may be a good thing in the end. Ireland is not part of the Schengen agreement because the UK refused to be part of it and Ireland couldn't join without giving up the free travel between Ireland and the UK. So now that that won't exist any more, Ireland is free to join Schengen.

Which would be a good thing for Ireland, not least making it easier for business and tourist travel - I know at least one person who had his passport packed and checked in when going to Ireland, unaware that there was a border control. That the UK stays out of Schengen is their choice, I don't see why Ireland had to be tied to their decision.

[threepymeepy.livejournal.com]

Yes, totally the wrong direction. Even aside from our mutual membership of the EU, the UK and Ireland have always had a special relationship in this respect and I don't see the point in removing it.

Idetrorce

[(Anonymous)]

very interesting, but I don't agree with you
Idetrorce

Re: Idetrorce

[lostcarpark.livejournal.com]

That's a very compelling argument you've put forward.