Agnostic or Atheist?

[lostcarpark]

I had a discussion with someone at Eastercon who argued that atheists are just as bad as believers, and that the only tenable position is agnosticism.

I argued that the key difference between a believer and an atheist is that a true believer doesn't "believe", they know that their god exists, and no evidence to the contrary will change their mind. An atheist, on the other hand, believes there is no god, but in the majority of cases will accept that the non-existence of god is in fact unprovable, and would be will to change their position if the evidence changed.

However, a very good friend then insisted the position I describe is not atheism at all, and is in fact agnosticism.

For the record, I would describe agnosticism as fence sitting and saying "I don't believe or disbelieve as it's impossible to prove either way."

I'd like to hear other people's views on the topic, and would like to know if my understanding is off the mark.

Comments

[zeit.livejournal.com]

Atheism and agnosticism are not points on the same scale - they describe two different things.

Atheism is, simply, a lack of belief in god(s). That's all. It's about what one believes to be true.

Agnosticism is, simply, a lack of knowledge about god(s). That's all. It's about what one knows to be true.

For the record, I have no knowledge of god(s) and I lack any belief in god(s). This makes me an agnostic atheist, a label I'm happy with.

Agnostic theists also exist - they profess no knowledge of god(s) but choose to believe that god(s) exist.

[lostcarpark.livejournal.com]

An interesting perspective, though I'm not sure it's what most people would understand when they use the terms.

I'm also not sure what you mean by knowledge of god(s), but that's another argument.

[zeit.livejournal.com]

Athiest: I don't believe in god(s).

Agnostic: I don't know if god(s) exist or not.

Thus, my own position is agnostic atheist: I don't know if god(s) exist or not, but I choose to believe that they don't.

[lostcarpark.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting way of looking at it, but is belief really a choice?

Or rather, if you've gone so far as admitting you cannot know whether God exists or not, can you then backpeddle and decide to believe in him anyway? Will God ignore your doubt and let you into heaven anyway? I find it hard to see how any true believer could admit to being agnostic, even if they have nagging doubts in the back of their mind.

Can you be an agnostic and not be an atheist? Sure.

Can you be atheist and not agnostic? Probably, but in that case you're as closed minded as the religious fanatic. I think most atheists are a bit more pragmatic, and take the view that on current scientific evidence it's 99.999% likely there is no God. However, if some overwhelming evidence were to turn up that proved the existence of God (and no, gaps in our current scientific knowledge don't prove anything), most would concede his existence.